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习近平在福建(三十五):“习近平同志始终认为,援藏必须以扶持老百姓、 关心老百姓的生活为主旨”

发布时间:2020-09-04 来源:学习时报 浏览次数:1927次

采访对象:孙永明,1955年7月生,福建福州人。二级作家,福建省电视艺术家协会副主席。从1995年开始跟踪记录福建省援藏干部的工作和生活,曾经20多次赴藏,2000年出版长篇报告文学《援藏岁月》,创作有援藏三部曲剧本《追你到天边》《太阳和月亮》《美丽的故事》。

采  访  组:邱 然 黄 珊 陈 思

采访日期:2017年6月5日初访,2020年1月9日核访

采访地点:福州市芳沁园,福州悦华酒店


采访组:孙老师,您好!您是一位资深媒体人,曾经20多次赴藏,也曾跟随时任福建省委副书记习近平同志一起进藏接送援藏干部。请您谈谈那次行程。

孙永明:1998年,习书记率第二批福建援藏干部进藏,同时迎接第一批援藏干部返回。那一次他带的随行人员很少,除了他的秘书,还有《福建日报》随团记者张红。我不是习书记指定去的,他那时并不认识我。当时,有的同志不太敢去西藏,我因为常年跑西藏,就自告奋勇去负责电视报道。

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ZUIHOUSHIXISHUJIJIANGHUA。TAZHANQILAISHI,WOKANDAOTAYANQUANYESHIHONGHONGDE。TAXIANXIANGTAIXIAJUGONG,RANHOUYOUXIANGTAISHANGDEDANGDIGANBUHEYUANZANGGANBUJUGONG,DUITAMENBIAOSHIGANXIE。TASHUO:“SHOUXIAN,ZHONGYANGGUANYUYUANZANGDEJUECEFEICHANGYINGMING,ZHONGYANGDEYUANZANGFANGZHENYAOJIANJUEGUANCHE。FUJIANJINQISUONENGXIANGYINGZHONGYANGDEHAOZHAO,YIJINGBALINZHIDIQUZUOWEIFUJIANSHENGDEYIGEDIQULAIKAOLVGONGTONGFAZHAN,ZAILINZHIDIQUWANCHENGLEDIYIPIYUANZANGDERENWU。QICI,FUJIANYUANZANGXIANGMUDELUODI,DEDAOLEDANGDIZHENGFUDEGUANAI,GANXIELINZHIDIWEIXINGSHUDUIYUANZANGGANBUDEGUANXINYUHOUAI,WOJINDAIBIAOFUJIANSHENGWEISHENGZHENGFUXIANGLINZHIDIQUDELINGDAOHEZAIZUODEGANBUBIAOSHIGANXIE。ZAICI,BIAOYANGDENGBAONANTONGZHI、XUSHAOQINTONGZHI、YEKANGYONGTONGZHI、CHENJINGHUITONGZHIDENGDIYIPIYUANZANGGANBU,NIMENMEIYOUGUFUDANGDEZHONGTUO,MEIYOUGUFUFUJIANRENMINHEXIZANGRENMINDEZHONGTUO,KEFULECHANGRENNANYIXIANGXIANGDEKUNNAN,JINLEZIJIZUIDADENULI。NIMENBUJINHEDANGDIGANBUQUNZHONGTUANJIEFENDOU,GAIBIANLEPINQIONGLUOHOUDEMIANMAO,HAIYONGZIJIDEXINGDONGJILIZHERENMENDAOJIANKUDEDIFANGQUGONGZUO,FUJIANRENMINGANXIENIMEN!ZHEIZHONGJINGSHENSHIKONGFANSENJINGSHENDETIXIAN、LAOXIZANGJINGSHENDEFAYANG。DENGBAONANTONGZHISHICHUANGKOU,NIHENHAODIDUIJIELELIANGDIDEJIAOLIU,WEIZENGJINMINZANGLIANGDIDEGANQINGZUOCHULEZHONGYAOGONGXIAN。ZUIHOU,JIXIWANGYUDIERPIYUANZANGGANBU,XIWANGNIMENNENGJICHENGHEFAYANGDIYIPIYUANZANGGANBUWUSHICHUANGYEDEJINGSHEN,HEDANGDIDEGANBUQUNZHONGDACHENGYIPIAN,JIAOTASHIDI,GONGTONGNULI,ZAICHUANGJIAYE!”

XISHUJIDEZHEIFANHUARUJUANJUANXILIU,WEIWEIDAOLAI,YOUCHONGMANLEGANQING,JIANGDEDAJIADOUHENJIDONG,DUITABAOYIRELIEDEZHANGSHENG。


采访组:在西藏的几天时间里,您和习近平同志朝夕相处,一同工作。请您讲讲你们之间的交流吧。

孙永明:我和习书记初次相识,挺谈得来,关系很融洽。

YINGSONGYUANZANGGANBUNEITIANXIAWU2DIAN,ZHENGSHIGAOYUANTAIYANGZUIDUDESHIHOU,XISHUJIQINZIDAOCHANGDENGHOU。DANGDIANZHAOJIHUAZUZHIZHONGXIAOXUESHENG、GANBUZHANZAIDAOLULIANGPANG,YINGJIEDIERPIYUANZANGGANBU,SONGBIEDIYIPIYUANZANGGANBU。ZUOWEIFUZEREN,XISHUJIYEZHANZAINEIERDENG。KESHIZHANLEYIGEDUOXIAOSHI,DIERPIDEDUIWUHAIMEIDAODA。DANGSHITONGXINHAIBUSHIHENFADA,DIERPIYUANZANGGANBUSHENMESHIHOUDAO,DAONALI,SHEIYEBUZHIDAO,ZHIYOUZAINEILIDENG。

XISHUJIGEZIGAO,SHENCAIYOUBIJIAOKUIWU,ZHEIYANGDERENZAIGAOYUANSHANG,RUGUOZHANGSHIJIANZHANZHEHENRONGYIQUEYANG,WOJIUBANLEYIZHANGMUDENGZIJITA,SHUO:“XISHUJI,NIHENLEI,XIANZUOHUIERBA。”XISHUJIKANDAOXIAOXUESHENGHAIDOUZHANZAINEILI,BUYUANYIZIJIZUOXIALAI。WOFANFUQUANSHUO,TACAISHAOWEIZUOXIAXIUXILEYIHUIER。

ZAIZANGQIJIAN,TAHEWOLIAOLEBUSHAODUSHUDESHI,CONGSHIJIEMINGZHU,LIAODAOZUIXINDEYIXIECHUBANWU。TADUDESHUHENDUO,ERQIESHELIESHENGUANG,YOUQISHITADUSHUHOUYOUHENDUOZIJIDESIKAO,CHANSHENGLEHENDUODUDAODEGUANDIAN。WOSHIDUHANYUYANWENXUEZHUANYEDE,DANSHIZAIZHEIFANGMIANYUTAXIANGBI,SHIZAISHICHADETAIYUANLE。TONGGUOJIAOLIU,WODUITAGENGJIASURANQIJINGLE。

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XISHUJIDUIXIZANGDEQINGKUANGHENSHUXI,ZHIDAOMOTUOHENJIANKU。TAJIUSHUO:“CHENJINGHUIQUMOTUO?JIUSHIBAIBAIPANGPANGDENEIWEITONGZHI?”WOSHUO:“SHIA,ZHEIGERENHENYOUYISI,TAPIFUHENBAI,TAIYANGZENMESHAIDOUSHAIBUHEI,DIYITIANSHAIHONGLE,DIERTIANYOUBAILE。”XISHUJISHUO:“XIZANGDETIAOJIANHENJIANKU,TAZHENBURONGYI。”

WOSHUO:“ZHEIPIYUANZANGGANBUFUCHUDEDAIJIAHENDA。”XISHUJISHUO:“NIYEBURONGYIYA!”WOSHUO:“WOSANTIANLIANGTOUJIUHUIJIALE,MEIGUANXI。”TASHUO:“NIYOUYICIDAIHENZHANGSHIJIAN。”WOSHUO:“SHI,WONEICIDAILE4GEYUE。WOYIZHIZAIPAIJILUPIAN《MINZANGQING》,DINGQIJIFUJIANTAISONG。”

XISHUJIWENWO:“NICHULEPAI《MINZANGQING》,XIANZAIZAIXIESHENME?”WOSHUO:“WOHAIZHUNBEIXIE《YUANZANGSUIYUE》。”TASHUO:“XIEWANYIDINGYAOJIWO。”WOSHUO:“WOXIANZAIZHIDAOLE,NIHENHUIKANSHU,DANSHIWOZHEIBENSHUDESHUIPINGBUXING,CHENGBULEMINGZHU。”TAZHENCHENGDISHUO:“ZHEISHILISHIA。YIDUANLISHI,YINGGAIYAOYOURENJILU。”

HOULAI,WOZAI《YUANZANGSUIYUE》LIXIELEYIJUHUA:“LISHIFEICHANGWUQING”,JIUSHICONGXISHUJIDEZHEIJUHUALIDEDAODEQIFA。WOXIANG,1995NIAN,FUJIANSHENGPAI22WEIGANBUDAOXIZANGGONGZUOLEDUOSHAONIAN,ZUOLENAXIESHI,YUANZANGGANBUDEGERENHEJIATINGSUOFUCHUDEXINKU,MEIRENZHIDAO。LISHIHENWUQINGA,SUOYIWOJIUXIANGYAOTIANBUZHEIDUANKONGBAI。XISHUJIHENZHICHIWOXIEZHEIBENSHU,SUOYISHUYICHULAI,WOJIUDIYISHIJIANSONGJILETAYIBEN。 

HAIYOUYIJIANYINXIANGSHENKEDESHI。WOMENZAIYIGEDIFANGCHIWANWUFAN,ZHUNBEICHUFADESHIHOU,WOKANGZHESHEXIANGJI,DENGZHEDUIWUCHULAI,DENGLEHENZHANGSHIJIAN,TAHAIMEILAI,WOJIUHUIQUZHAOTA。YOURENGAOSUWO,XISHUJIZAICANTINGHECHUSHIWOSHOU。WOJIUGANKUAIHUIQU,PAIXIALEYIZUJINGTOU。NEISHI,TAYIJINGGENTASUOZAILOUCENGDEFUWUYUANWOGUOSHOULE,HAIYIDINGYAOQUCHUFANG。DANGDIDELINGDAOGANBUDUITASHUO:“WOSONGNINZOUBA!”TASHUO:“BUXING,RENJIAWEIWOFUWU,HENXINKU,WOYAOQUGANXIEYIXIA。”

XISHUJILIKAIRENHEYIGEDIFANG,DOUHUIGENBINGUANDEFUWUYUAN、CHUSHIWOSHOU,BIAOSHIGANXIE,SHUO:“NIMENXINKULE,NIMENSHAODECAIHENHAO,XIEXIENIMEN!”YOUDECHUSHI、FUWUYUANHUITICHUGENTAHEYING,TADOUHENLEYI。XIANZAITAYESHIZHEIYANG,WULUNZOUDAONALI,RENJIAXIANGHETAHEYING,TADOUHENLEYI。TAMEIYOUGUANJIAZI,NENGTILIANGBIEREN,RANGWOYINXIANGSHENKE。


采访组:习近平同志在福建省领导岗位上,对于援藏项目都提出过哪些要求?

孙永明:按照中央指示,福建省的援藏工作是从1995年开始的,那时候习书记是福州市委书记。他任省委副书记以后,就确定了福建援藏的具体项目,主要是通过解决西藏的基础建设问题来推进西藏发展。

20DUONIANYILAI,FUJIANZAIXIZANGLIUXIALEHENDUODONGXI,XIULEFUJIANLU、SHAMENGUANGCHANG、FUZHOUJIEHELINZHIDIQUDERENDABANGONGLOU,HAIBANGZHUJIEJUELAOBAIXINGDEZHUFANGWENTI、YONGSHUIWENTI、LIANGSHIPINZHONGWENTI,DENGDENG。FUJIANDEYUANZANGCHUANTONGHEYUANZANGJINGSHENZAIXISHUJIDEZHICHIXIAYIPIYIPICHUANCHENGXIALAI,XIANZAIYIJINGDAOLEDI9PI。

NEICICONGXIZANGHUIDAOFUJIANHOU,XISHUJISHIZHONGGUANZHUZHEYUANZANGDEJUTIGONGZUO。JUWOSUOZHI,YOUDETONGZHINIDINGLEJIGEXIANGMUQINGTAPIZHUN,TAJIANDAOYOUXIEHUAERBUSHIDEJIUHUISHUO:“ZHEIGEXIANGMUWEISHENMEZHEIYANGZHIDING,YAONACHUNIMENDEYIJULAI。”“NIMENYAONACHUJIGENENGGAISHANHETIGAOLAOBAIXINGSHENGHUOSHUIPINGDEXIANGMULAI,QITADEBUYAOJIANGTAIDUO。NISHOUXIANGAOSUWO,RUHEGAISHANLAOBAIXINGDEWEISHENGTIAOJIAN、ZHUSUTIAOJIAN,RUHEBAFANGMUQUHEJUZHUQUFENKAILAI,RANGLAOBAIXINGYOUGEHENHAODESHENGHUOHUANJING。”

MEIYIGEXIANGMU,MEIYIJIANSHI,XISHUJIDOUWENDEHENJUTI,HENXIANGXI。TASHIZHONGRENWEI,YUANZANG,BIXUYIFUCHIBAIXING、GUANXINLAOBAIXINGDESHENGHUOWEIZHUZHI。CHIXUBUDUANDIGUANZHUHECUJINRENMINQUNZHONGSHENGHUOSHUIPINGDETIGAO,SHITACONGZHENGYILAIYIZHIJIANCHIDEYUANZE,CONGLAIMEIYOUPIANLIGUO。ZHEIJIUSHIGONGCHANDANGRENDECHUXIN。


采访组:从西藏回来以后,你们是否还有联系?

孙永明:西藏是一个无比美丽、无比圣洁,又充满艰险的地方。那次和习书记一起在西藏,我常看到习书记嘴唇发黑,走路气喘。他毕竟长期在内地生活,加上身材魁梧,需要消耗更多的能量,所以高原反应还是挺大的。但是他很坚强,能挺得住,从不喊苦喊累。在“世界屋脊”面前,无论多么强悍的人,都是在用生命挑战。因此,从雪域高原一路走来,你会对同行的人留下难以磨灭的记忆。

WOYIZHIJIDEXISHUJI,MEIXIANGDAOTANEIMEDADEGANBU,ZHISHIYINWEIJINZANGDENEIYICIJINGLI,XISHUJIHOULAIHAIYIZHIJIDEWO。YOUYIDUANSHIJIANMEIJIANDAOWO,XISHUJIJIUHUIWEN:“SUNYONGMINGLAOSHIXIANZAIZAIGANMA?”DAJIATINGDAOHOUDOUHUICHUANHUAGUOLAI,DANSHIWOZHIDAOTAHENMANG,YIZHIMEIHAOYISIQUDARAOTA。WORENWEI,YUYIGEJIECHUDELINGDAORENRENSHIBINGBUYIDINGYAOLAIWANGMIQIE,GENGYINGGAIGUANZHUTADEJUCUO,XIANGTAXUEXI,ZHICHITADEGONGZUO。BIRU,TAZAIFUJIANGAODE“CAILANZI”GONGCHENG,JIUSHIGUANXINMINSHENGDEZHONGYAOJUCUO;TATUIDONG“SHUZIFUJIAN”JIANSHESHILINIANFEICHANGCHAOQIANDE。TAYINGXIANGLEWO,WOKAISHIZUOYIXIEXINDECHUANGZUOTANSUO,JIUSHISHOUTADEQIFAYUZHIYIN。

DANSHIYOUYIJIANSHI,WOQUESHI“DARAO”LETA。WOYIZHIXIANGPAIYIBUGUANYUYUANZANGGANBUDEDIANSHIJU,JIUXIELEGEGUSHIDAGANGJIAOJIXISHUJI。TAHENKUAIJIUZUOLEZHISHI,XIEDAO:“ZHEISHIYIJIANYOUYIYIDESHI,QINGSHENGWEIXUANCHUANBUSHENHE。”DANSHI,TASUIHOUJIUPIPINGWOLE:“ZHEISHIYIJIANHAOSHI,YESHIGONGJIADESHI。DANNIYAOZOUZHENGGUIQUDAO,BUYAOPINGZHESIRENGUANXILAI。YIHOU,NIBIXUANCHENGXUSONGSHANGLAIJIWO,BUYUNXUYUEJI。XIABUWEILI。”

XISHUJIYOUTADECONGZHENGYUANZE,YOUTAWEIRENDEZHUNZE。TAHENYANSUDITIXINGWO,BUNENGYINWEINIHEWORENSHI,JIUKEYIZHIJIEZHAOWOQUBANMOUXIESHI,JISHIBANDESHIHAOSHI,SHIGONGJIADESHI,YESHIBUYUNXUDE。CONGRENGEDAODANGXING,XISHUJIDOURANGWOGANDAOFEICHANGJINGPEI。JINGGUOTANEIYICIDETIXING,WOBAZHEIGEYUANZEJIULAOJIZAIXINLE。

ZHEIMEDUONIANGUOQULE,XIZANGZHIXINGDEQINGJING,WOYIRANLILIZAIMU。TADANGSHISHISHENGWEIFUSHUJI,WOZHISHIYIBANGANBU,WOMENZUOZAIYITIAOMUBANDENGSHANG,YIRENZUOYITOU,TANGEDE,TANTUOERSITAI,TANJIXINGE……ZHEIDUANJINGLISHIWODERONGXING,WOZIJIYEMEIXIANGDAO,WOHETANENGYOUZHEIMEYIDUAN“OUYU”。ZHEIYESHIWOZAIXIZANGLIUXIADEZUIMEIHAODEJIYI。


采访组:上世纪90年代末,您开始参与福建帮扶宁夏贫困地区的工作。习近平同志对这项工作都有哪些支持?

孙永明:1997年5月,我接受福建省政府扶贫办的任务拍摄宁夏介绍片,由扶贫办林月婵主任带队到宁夏,为福建帮扶宁夏贫困地区打前站。任务完成后,我们将拍摄好的电视片送到省政府会议室,给当时的领导们观看。会上,大家分别介绍了宁夏西海固的贫困情况,各级领导汇报了各自的想法。按我的级别来说,那天是不用发言的,但习书记却给我很大的尊重,问我有什么想法。我虽然婉拒了,但他对我的尊重,至今仍让我回味无穷。

HUIHOUBUJIU,XISHUJIQINZIQIANWANGNINGXIA,SHENRUDAOZUIPINKUNDESHANQU,ZUOCHULEKEXUEDEJUECE,ZHONGXINGUIHUAJIANSHELEYIGECUN,HOULAIJIUFAZHANCHENGLEJINTIANDEMINNINGZHEN。

1999NIAN,XISHUJIDAIDUIFUNINGXIAZUODUIKOUYUANZHUGONGZUO。NEICI,WOHAISHIZUOWEIXIANQIANDUIQUPAILEYIXIENINGXIADEQINGKUANG,NAHUILAIZAISHENGLIDEHUIYISHANGJILINGDAOMENKAN。XISHUJIDINGDEDIAOZIFEICHANGQIEHESHIJI,JUECEYEHENYOUZHANLVEGAODU,YISHIJIEJUESHENGCUNWENTI,ERSHIJIEJUEFAZHANWENTI。FUJIANYUANZHUNINGXIADESUOYOUXIANGMUDOUFEICHANGTIEHEBAIXINGSHENGHUO,DOUSHISHIZAIZAIDIGUANXIDAOMEIYIHULAOBAIXINGDEJIATING,HENHAODITIXIANLE“FUCHIBAIXING”DEYUANZE。ZAIXISHUJIJUECEXIA,FUJIANZAININGXIADEDUIKOUBANGFUGONGZUODEDAOLEDANGDIGANBUQUNZHONGDEGUANGFANKENDING,LIUXIALEFEICHANGHAODEKOUBEI。


采访组:党的十八大以来,我们党和国家发生了全方位、根本性的历史变化,取得了举世瞩目的成就。作为一位资深媒体人,请您谈谈对现在时政热点的看法。

孙永明:首先是反腐败斗争取得重大成果,振奋人心。作为一个老百姓来看中国的这段历史,我认为习近平总书记是一个创造奇迹的人。之前,社会上曾对反腐败有过争议,有人提出了一个尖锐的问题,你共产党敢给自己开刀吗?习近平总书记明确提出我们党要自我革命,做到“刀刃向内”,自己给自己开刀。腐败是世界通病,纵观古今中外,有几个政党敢把自己的问题毫不避讳地袒露出来?所谓的西方民主其实是相互之间开刀,在野党和执政党互相开刀解决问题。以习近平同志为核心的党中央能够做到堂堂正正地把党内的毒瘤割掉,对腐败始终保持零容忍,这在一定程度上来讲,是挽救了中国共产党,挽救了中国。

DIER,XIJINPINGZONGSHUJITICHUDE“YIDAIYILU”CHANGYIXIANZAIZHUJIANXIANLUCHUCHENGXIAO。ZHEISHITAGOUJIANRENLEIMINGYUNGONGTONGTISIXIANGDEJUTIHUA,WEISHIJIEFAZHANZHIYINLEFANGXIANG。

DISAN,TAJIEJUELEYIGESHIJIEXINGDENANTI,ZHONGGUOZHEIGE14YIDUORENKOUDEGUOJIAJIANGZAIJINNIANQUANMIANBAITUOJUEDUIPINKUN。

XIJINPINGZONGSHUJIJIALILIANGDAIRENDOUJIANFUGUOMINZUDESHIMING:TAFUMUNEIYIDAI,YONGSHENGMINGHEXINNIANWEIGEMINGSHIYEFENDOU;TAZHEIYIDAI,SHIJIANSHOUXINNIAN,YONGSIXIANGHEZHIHUIKAITUOWEILAI。XIJINPINGZONGSHUJIJIZHONGGUODAILAILEXIWANG,JILAOBAIXINGDAILAILEFUZHI。